Session 015 – An Interview with Adam Dicker on Making BIG Money with Domains

OIL 015: An Interview with Adam Dicker on Making Big Money with Domains

Trent: Hey everybody! This is Trent from the Online Income Lab with session no. 15 of the podcast. And on the show today I have one of the more famous guests in at least in the world of internet that I’ve ever had on the show. His name is Adam Dicker and he’s the driving force behind DNForum.com which is the most popular domain name forum on the internet and it was awarded the name intelligence award site in 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009 and 2010. DNForum also won domain name wire’s most popular forum over the last 5 years. It currently boasts over a 103,000 members with more than 1,750,000 posts. And Adam Dicker was one of the first people to sell a domain for over a million dollars and according to logistic labs Adam Dicker is one of the top 20 most influential people on the internet. So, boy oh boy do we ever have a rockstar on the show for you today. Adam, thank you very much for making some time to come onto the podcast.

Adam Dicker: Thank you very much for having me.

T: So, listen, I’m, normally when I bring a guest on to the show the area of their expertise is an area where I have some experience in. But I gotta tell you in the world of domaining, aside from growing up across the street from a fellow by the name of Frank Shelling who is apparently also one of the top domainers on the planet, I really don’t know anything about the business. So, before we get into the interview on how to succeed and so forth, to those of my listeners who have never even heard of the concept of domaining could you just give us, just the grade 5 level, what is it that you do?

A: Sure. Basically what I do is I go and I look for good domains that I feel would have value to somebody else and that somebody else may be interested in purchasing further down the road. So, it could be anything from, let’s see from San Diego florist to San Diego real estate to San Diego plumber, basically anything that’s brandable that somebody could use to brand their business and have instant credibility and they would also get users right away coming in because people do type in things like San Diego florist sent to the browser and that’s called type in traffic. Type in traffic is the most viable kind of traffic you can get and the idea is to hopefully find good domains that people would eventually want to buy off of you later. And me purchasing them for $7 there’s good potential to earn much more revenue selling- buying and selling domains than there is in even real estate or the 2% that you could make at the bank and that’s high right now.

T: No kidding. Yeah that is a very, very interesting model. So, I know in many of my familiar, in my listeners rather would be familiar with this. When we’re looking for domains for niche sites almost all the time I mean I would say better than 98% of the time they’re taken. So, how are you going about it and sourcing the domains? Are you really still able to find that many long tail or do you buy them in the secondary market and sit on them for a while? How does it work?

A: To be quite honest with you, all of the high end domains that I own or that have sold I’d won directly from the original owner and I purchased them off from them. And I kept them and a lot of them I built out and developed out and some of them I resold. But there are still a lot of good local domains meaning city and occupation .coms that are available that people can still register.

T: Very interesting. Alright, so why is it that you think domaining as a business is worth someone’s consideration?

A: Well the investments can be minimal. I tell people and I also run something I call DNF College which is a, it’s DNFCollege.com it’s basically a place where I want to give back to community, where people could go sign up for free and learn about how to make money in domaining. And what I tell them in there basically is a couple things. One is that if you go and you buy 700 domains or let’s say a hundred domains. And it cost you $700 cause a domain is roughly $7 a piece, you spent $700 you’ve got a hundred domains. If you go and you sell one for $1500 or $2000 you still got 99 domains and you’ve already made a hundred to 200% profit. So, it’s a pretty easy business to get into. Relatively cheap.

T: Yeah and no kidding. And not a lot of moving parts because you’re not having to write content, you’re not building websites, there’s really, you’re just buying them and putting them in the backpack so to speak. And then that’s it.

A: Well I actually build the domains and build them out. I have a development company with 45 designers, developers and content writers that we do at DCG.com for domain consulting group. But I mean mainly you can buy a lot of $7 domains and sell them at 13- $1400 all day. And there’s no other market that you can do that in such a short time. And some of them sell for a hundreds of thousands of dollars. I sold one last week that I paid $5600 for and it closed this week for $65000. And it was seals.com that’s no secret so I can tell you the domain name and I bought it in 2005. I sat on it for 6 years and obviously I made much more money on that domain than I would have had put the $5000 in the bank and wait for 5 years.

T: Just by a small amount yeah absolutely.

A: Yeah

T: So, when people are first getting into this business what would you say is the no. 1 mistake that people make?

A: The no. 1 mistake is easy. The problem is that people hear of these domains selling for 3 to $400000, a million dollars, whatever, they think is a quick cash grab it’s like winning the lottery. They just tough to right find them and buy the right domain so they go and spend ridiculous amount of money, 1 to 5000, 10000, sometimes $20000 and they go about it just randomly. The first thing that I encourage people to do is like you should with any industry is go ahead and do some reading. And read for a good 3 to 6 months before you go out and buy domain names because I wouldn’t try to go fix a car right now considering I have no knowledge on the inner workings of a car so I couldn’t expect anybody else to jump into a business and try to be successful from day 1 without doing any research or reading anything. That’s the biggest mistake that people do. Is it’s that they jump in with both feet and they spend way too much money and they don’t buy the right domains and in the end after a year they end up dropping 99% of those domains and they wasted that money. And in that time they’ve decided to do some reading because now they’ve lost money and now they want to learn how to operate and run a domain business successfully.

T: Yeah no kidding. So, some of the things when they’re doing all the reading what are some of the things that you think that they should be focusing on?

A: Ah, geez, there is so much in this industry. One of the main things is not to buy any domain names with trademarks in them. It’s all too often common that you see beginners buying domain names because they think they’re available and they think they can go out and buy something like disneystores.com and it’s gonna be popular and they’re gonna get money off it. But the bottomline is for every domain name that you own that is a trademark you can be fined up to a $100000 so it’s really not a wise investment to go out and buy any domain names that have any trademarks in it. They go out and buy people’s names, celebrities’ names, those are the wrong types of domains to buy.

T: So, what are the right types of domains to buy? Could you give us a couple of examples of something that you’d either bought recently or examples of the template of the type of domain you’d want to buy?

A: Sure. I mean recently I bought, I buy, because I’m from Canada I do buy lots of .ca domains. I believe that .com and .ca for me are the 2 main major CCTLDs and TLDs that Canadians should invest in. So, I bought webdesigners.ca which I know will always have a future because people will always be looking for web designers. I bought gardeners.ca because gardening is a very popular hobby. I think it’s one of the most popular hobbies in Canada and the US. And then I went out and bought a whole bunch of cord blood domains. So, I bought 600 cord blood domains so I built a lead generation site where I get paid between 2 & $700 per lead that comes in off of cord blood storage. So, the key is to concentrate on things that you know so if you’re a dentist and your expert on dentistry go ahead and buy a whole bunch of domains on dentures or orthodontics stuff. Do what you’re good at and do what you know. Or find a niche that’s relatively untapped that you can go into and start to earn some money.

T: Interesting. So, in my preparation for this podcast I was reading some of the material on your various sites and if I’m, correct me if I’m wrong but I think I read something to the effect of the real secret in domaining is not the buying, it’s the marketing and the selling of the domain. So, could you talk for a little bit assuming that I got that right, could you talk about a little bit about your kind of top 3 best ideas or secrets, whatever word you’d like to use, to you know you’ve bought some domains, you’ve now got them on your balance sheet and you’ve got to find buyers and you want these buyers to pay top dollars, how does all that happen?

A: Okay. What you said is fairly correct and I do tell people that basically, and excuse the phrase, any idiot with money can go and buy domains. That’s only 5% of domaining. 95% of domaining is knowing how to sell domains. And then the first thing that people have to understand is just because you own a portfolio of domains doesn’t make you a domainer cause you don’t set the price for domains, the market does. I can price a domain name at whatever I want it doesn’t mean it’s gonna sell. It’s the same thing as a house. I can overprice a house as well and it’s not gonna sell. A domain will sell based on what a buyer is willing to pay for it. And that’s basically all that it will sell for. So, knowing that is key and learning and reading about how to sell and how to negotiate will help you in your business of domaining.

T: Let’s use an example. So, let’s say that I have just purchased, I don’t know, sandiegodentist.com for lack of a better domain.

A: Okay

T: So, presumably some dentist would like to have sandiegodentist.com because you’d get the type in traffic that you’ve talked about earlier. But let’s assume that, how do I market it? How am I gonna find a buyer? Where do I list it for sale? What do I do? How do I promote the listing?

A: Okay there’s a few things that you can do first especially something like San Diego dentist. We’ll use that example specifically so let’s say I own San Diego dentist and I want to sell it. So, one of the first things I’m gonna do is I’m gonna list it for sale in all of the domain marketplaces. So, I’m gonna list it for sale on sedo.com. I’m gonna list it for sale on showcasemanager.com. I’m gonna list it for sale on afternic.com. And I’m gonna list it for sale on Go Daddy premium listings and Go Daddy auctions which Go Daddy auctions is Tnam.com and that’s the first thing I’m gonna do. So, first thing I’m gonna do is tell the people it’s for sale.

The second thing I’m gonna do is I’m gonna put something on the page so that when people go there they’re gonna see that it is for sale. The third thing that you can do is you can go into Google and you can buy the term San Diego dentist under your Google adwords account and then all you can do is put a Google adwords that says sandiegodentist.com is for sale and here is the price. Some people even advertise on places like craigslist. Now the more complicated thing you can do is you can go out and you can get a program called who is extractor and email studio, it’s atomic email studio. What that does is…

T: We’re having a little bit of a sound problem here. Sorry about that. Adam… Do you have anything running on the background which is maybe downloading or uploading or somehow consuming your bandwidth because that last paragraph pretty much went south on us?

A: No problem. Where did it go south so we can start from there?

T: You were just starting to talk about who is extractor so maybe you could take it from there again.

A: Sure. So, you can get who is extractor or email atomic email studio and you can extract the top 100 San Diego dentists and then you can email them. Tell them the name is for sale for $700 to $1500 or whatever you want a price for that and you’ll probably get somebody respond saying that they’re interested in purchasing the name. So, that’s a good place to start.

T: Interesting. So, the combination of who is extractor and atomic email studio and I’m assuming this might probably both be paid services, yes?

A: Yeah one is about $40, $49, I think one is $299 but it amazingly allows you to become what they would consider domain name brokers. And those are tools that you’re gonna be using constantly. The who is extractor extracts emails from any… words San Diego dentist. Extract up to 10,000 different websites so I think that would be good.

T: Sorry about that we’re having a horrible, normally I don’t have this much difficulty with the internet connection but you were just talking about how the who is extractor works. Maybe I could get you to repeat that one more time.

A: Sure the who is extractor extracts up to a hundred or a thousand or 10,000 email addresses based on the term San Diego dentist.

T: Very interesting. I didn’t know that.

A: And then atomic email studio allows you to email them all at once and allow them to an unsubscribe link.

T: So, who is extractor is gonna build the list for me and I’m gonna use atomic email studio to send them that first email that have the unsubscribe option in the first email. And does that get me around canned spam?

A: Sure it gets you around canned spam. It does.

T: Okay so you can send someone you don’t know and email for the first time so long as there’s an unsubscribe link and then you’re not gonna get yourself in hot water.

A: Yeah and you’re not really sending them spam. You’re sending them something that will help them with their business.

T: Yeah absolutely. Okay that is absolutely fantastic. You got me interested in exploring this further already. So how, when someone’s new everything takes so much longer to do the first time cause you don’t know what you’re doing. I have an expression like you got a blindfold on and you’re in a dark room. So, how can someone achieve good results in less time? What are some of the things aside from spending let’s say that 3 to 6 months reading and aside from the who is extractor and the atomic email studio that you just mentioned for marketing a domain, is there another idea or two that you think are important in trying to get results in less time?

A: To be honest with you the 2 most important things is that you get on DNForum.com. Get a membership, there’s a 117,000 members. There’s always 2-3,000 people on 24 hours a day where you can post your questions. There’s a whole section for newbies and beginners. There’s a glossary that explains terms. That’s the best place to start by going on DNForum, getting a membership to start on as little as $19.95 and get that. But there’s really no way that you escape the learning curve and the reading. If you do you’re gonna end up investing money in something that is not gonna be successful. So, you really do need to learn and read the same way you would before you would build a website you didn’t understand how to use the software and how to do that and you need to do the research to be successful.

T: Absolutely. I think that is one of the things where so many new marketers they come to the internet and maybe they’re on the warrior forum or whatever it is they are and they’re looking for that push button cash machine or the magic software and I don’t believe in any of that stuff. I think it takes, you have to invest the time to develop the skill set necessary and then you need to setup there to build a real business to build that skill set. It sounds to me like succeeding in the domain business is like succeeding in the niche site business or any other online venture. It’s gonna take a little bit of time and it takes a lot of expertise.

A: It takes effort. Like everything it takes effort I mean. But if you have a niche that you’re an expert in you can buy up domains in that niche and that will give you a headstart. But you still need to know how to buy the right domains. For example there’s a big difference between selling San Diego florist and San Diego florists with an S. If you’re selling to a florist then they’re not interested in the plural they’re interested in the singular because they’re only 1 florist. So, there’s little tips and tricks that you learn along the way that will help you buy the right domains and not the wrong ones. Leave those for somebody else.

T: And so, that leads me into my next question the best tools and resources you have mentioned a couple of things already, both DNForum.com and I think you mentioned college or domain college or something like that.

A: DNFcollege.com.

T: Sorry repeat that.

A: DNFcollege.com and that’s free to sign up. I started out with about 43 people and now there’s over 3,000 people on it.

T: Fantastic.

A: So, there’s a lot of people, beginners and veterans, that want to learn a few extra tips and they don’t wanna waste any more money.

T: So, for the guy that’s working right now and he’s got a limited amount of time but he really wants to be able to develop a second stream of income that will hopefully he develops the right focus allow him to get rid of that day job at some point, can you describe to me how much time, let’s say I’m just gonna make stuff up here. Let’s say that your goal was a year. And within a year you wanted to go from never having bought and sold a domain to say, a $5,000 a month income. First of all, do you believe that’s even achievable for someone on a part time basis if they’re going about it in intelligent fashion?

A: It depends on 2 things. I mean it depends on if they have a realistic starting budget cause you do need some money to start it up obviously. But if you have a decent start up budget I think it’s easily achievable.

T: So, define reasonable start up budget. How much do you think someone needs?

A: I would say these days between $5 and $10000.

T: ok, and they’re gonna basically spend a vast majority of that money building out their portfolio of domains?

A: It’s not that hard to buy $7 domains with that first $5,000 and earn 20 to 40% off of that money per month going forward. So, you can get to that $5,000 mark pretty quickly because it goes back to the original example. If you buy the right domains and you’ll only buy a hundred even and you spend $700, if you’re selling them at $2 to $3,000 each it’s pretty easy to increase your profit line month by month and still hold the assets.

T: No kidding. So aside from, I wanna make sure that I understand this, aside from the obvious selling of the domains to generate revenue, with all of the domains that are still in your inventory are there other things that you’re doing with them that are helping you generate revenue in the meantime?

A: Sure you can develop out sites. I think I mentioned we do that with my company DCG.com. Developing sites this could be anywhere from $299 to $1,000 up. But basically what it does it allows you to have 3 or 4 different streams of revenue off of that developed website so you can have adsense ads on there. You can sell ads to companies. You can have affiliate products on there where you have an e-book or something that you’re making money on. There’s a lot of different ways that you can do that. And then while you’re waiting to build up your domains because you can’t develop a hundred at once you could leave them with a parking company. It won’t earn much revenue but it will earn some revenue while you’re building out your existing domain properties and assets.

T: And so what would be an example of parking company or 2 that you would recommend?

A: Sedo.com right now is a good one. Voodoo.com is also another good and upcoming parking company. Those are the 2 right now that are the hottest.

T: Can you repeat that first ones? Is it seo? Can you spell that out for me please?

A: Sedo S-E-D-O.com.

T: Okay. I’ve heard of that I’ve just been pronouncing it incorrectly.

A: They also run a marketplace where originally we talked about listing your domains in a marketplace.

T: Yeah okay. So, now I’ve sold a couple of sites on Flippa, a few dozen actually. And I found that the their paying attention to what other people are doing and how they’re writing their ads and they’re copyrighting and the information they’re giving is fairly important. I would assume that in selling a domain is the same thing true? I mean are you kinda coming up with, you know the whole marketing and sales letter for a domain or do you simply just put the listing out there and be calm because somebody’s already gonna be looking for that that they’re gonna make their own decision that yeah that’s the domain I want. There must be some salesmanship in the listing though?

A: A lot of times if you buy a hundred domains you’re gonna get inquiries from people on those domain names. And it’s how you handle those inquiries that will dictate that 95% which is the negotiating and the selling. And you can usually tell how serious a buyer is by their opening offer. You’ll always want to get an offer out of the buyer. Sometimes they’ll send you an opening offer and sometimes they’ll just send message for buying the domain name and is it for sale. And then the best way to respond is say yes it is for sale, I’m looking at developing it out but everything is for sale for the right price. Please give me your best offer upfront and let’s see if we can negotiate a sale.

T: Okay. So, negotiation, let’s talk about that a little bit because obviously I’ve been involved in quite a few negotiations myself when I sold my last business. There’s more, I guess the expression I’d like to say is there’s more money made in negotiation than virtually any other business activity. For me, by simply holding out for another couple of days it amounted to another quarter million dollars. So, and that was through thankfully at that time I had a mentor who was far more experienced in negotiation than I was and he laid out a very specific strategy for me to follow. I followed it and it worked. So, in the selling of the domain are there certain principles during the negotiation phase that you always follow? Or is every single negotiation different?

A: Every single negotiation is different but they’re also fun and they’re an adventure. Both see the results that you can get and how they start out. There’s been many, many times where I’ve told the guy this is just isn’t gonna work out so I suggest you forget about this domain name and go pick another domain name. There was one negotiation in particular where the domain was megacity.com the first time he caught me off guard. He called me actually I said I wasn’t interested in selling the domain name which was also a good strategy cause it makes them, everybody wants what they can’t have. So, basically he got into an argument with me, he hung up. First he said he owned the trademark of the domain name and he was gonna sue and he was gonna get it. And I knew there was no trademark on the domain name so I said you know what, go call your lawyer and sue me and you’re not gonna win. So, have fun….. He started out at $2 to $4000 offer. The domain ended up selling for $60,000. So, I mean you really never know how a negotiation is gonna turn out but it is important.

And a lot of times like you said I’ve had negotiations where a buyer, I’m thinking now this was a $300,000 offer and I wanted $400,000 and it was a Friday when I got the $300,000 offer. I decided to just let it sit. I didn’t respond to the guy. The next morning I was gonna type in, like Monday morning I was gonna type in okay I’ll do it for $350 and that I got tied up on a phone call and got busy. And the next thing I knew he accepted the $400,000 and it was sold.

So, I mean you never know how a negotiation is gonna go. Obviously your negotiating on behalf of yourself so you’re trying to get the most money that you can for you and your family. And it’s part of doing business. It’s the fun part of the game. The tough part is getting somebody interested. Once you have somebody interested then it goes back to the old zigzigler books where you have to learn how to sell and it’s all about the art of closing.

T: Absolutely. And I gotta tell I agree with you completely negotiation is a lot of fun. And there was a nugget you covered in your story there. And you let your buyer essentially negotiate against themself is the term I’d like to make. Some people and this was I have to be careful cause there are certain things about the sale of my company I probably shouldn’t be disclosing but some people have no patience. And when that happens they get impatient and in your situation he emailed back and accepted the offer and ended up paying more than he should. My situation when I sold my company was very, very similar as well. The buyers got impatient so they end up raising the bid themselves without even really knowing it and for me and I suspect for you that’s where a lot of the fun of negotiation is. It’s because it’s like a, I don’t play chess for real but I think negotiation is very much a financial form of chess and if you’re good at it it pays exceedingly well. I’ve made more on a per hour basis. There’s nothing in my life that I’ve done that’s earned me more than negotiation and I’d be willing to bet that same thing is probably true for you.

A: Yeah. I mean it’s pretty much like playing poker I mean but you can tell a lot from the initial offer whether you have potential for a good sale or whether you have somebody just somebody thinking that they can buy the domain if they offer you $10 and they’re just wasting your time. A lot of times I have to tell people to go pick another domain and it just doesn’t work out. But 9 times out of 10 they do come back because domains aren’t like real estate. Like I said they’re not cookie cutter houses. If they want adamdicker.com they have no choice but to negotiate with me to buy it.

So, I mean I sold pw.ca and that was a very strange sale. They offered me a $1000 or $1200 and I just want to get rid of them so I said $60,000 hoping that will scare them off and just get rid of them cause I didn’t really wanna sell the domain name. And unfortunately they came back and accepted the $60,000 price…. I left a lot of money on the table on that one cause it turned out to be prize water house. So, I mean I could have gotten easily a 6 figure for that domain name. I mean I only paid $7 for it. So, at the end of the day I can’t kick myself too badly but when you come back with a high price like that hoping to scare somebody off or to bring them up to unreasonable negotiation level and they just accept it like that so I was quite shocked and I was very disappointed in myself cause I figured out right away it was obviously a buyer that had money and wanted the domain name and that’s clearly what happened.

T: Yeah for a company the size or prize water house $60,000 is a lunch tab.

A: It’s pretty much nothing. It’s less than a Christmas party.

T: Yeah. You know I’ve have a lot more questions to ask to Adam but we’re just having such a horrible time with the connection and the sound quality today. I think I’m gonna draw the interview to a close here for now. Maybe at some point we can get you back on the show. Cause we’re just getting so much break up and static I don’t know how much value we’re gonna be adding to the listeners at this point. So, before I close off, is there anything else you wanna, obviously you’ve given for anyone listening to this on iTunes by the way, all of the links that Adam has mentioned will be links underneath the video on the page. And if you come to onlineincomelab.com/session015 that will take you directly to the page that this podcast is on. So, before we sign off for today Adam, is there any other words of wisdom that you’d like to pass on to? And again keep in mind my audience are probably most have probably never done this.

A: Sure. Again the most important thing you can do is get on DNForum or somewhere else or do some research. Obviously DNForum is the most popular place. Learn, read, read before you buy anything. And I make myself available to the beginners, to veterans, to everybody so feel free to add me on facebook, look up Adam Dicker. Youll find me in Toronto. You can add me on skype, it’s adam.dicker. You can call me on my cellphone at 416-884-0535. Or you can email me at adam.dcg.com (like digital consulting group). I’m available to all of you. I want you guys to be successful because if you’re buying the right domains it makes the whole industry better. And if you’re selling at the right prices and you’re making more money good for you and you can quit that full time job faster than you would like to do. So, I make myself available please feel free to use me and hopefully you can learn something from this interview and future interviews that we do. But the main thing to do is to read before you invest in the industry like you should do in any other industry if you plan on being successful.

T: Adam, I gotta tell you thank you so much for being on my show. I’ve never had a guest give out their cellphone number and personal email on the phone or rather on the show. And I think that says a whole lot about you. You know there’s no special offers. No super sign up deals. You just basically say and look this is a great business, get educated, here’s a bunch of free resources, go and study and if you have questions call me. And folks if you’re listening there’s not too many people in the world who are as good at what they do. Keep in mind we’re talking to one of the top domainers on the planet. This guy is, I don’t know how many millions he’s sold worth of domains but I’ll venture to guess it’s probably fairly high. So, here is a fantastic resource take advantage of it. Go out, educate yourself. Go make some money. Have some fun. I can see Adam wants to say one more thing so I’m gonna shut up and let him talk.

A: Yeah. No the only thing I’d like to add that obviously the industry has been good to me. It is a great industry. You shouldn’t be shy to learn and grow with it. It is one of the fastest growing industries on the planet. I always explain it this way. My dad who was in his 80’s before he passed away was about 10%, his group was about 10% computer literate. My group in their 40-50’s, mid-40’s is just about 40-50% computer literate. My kids who are 16, 14, 12 and 10 they’re 100% computer literate. So, this industry is only gonna grow. And for anybody that tells you that all the good domains are taken they’re full of crap cause I’m still buying good domains and still selling them for quite a bit of money even as recent as last week I’ve bought domains and I’ve sold them for, I bought for $7 and sold for $1500. Even though that’s not a big sale I mean the percentage and the return on investment on something like that is huge. You don’t need to make 10 sales or 20 sales a month to be able to quit that full time job. You need to be able to make 2 or 3. And the opportunities there, take the opportunity but whatever you do learn and educate yourself…

T: Alright folks again we’re having a whole lot of sound difficulty again today. I don’t know what’s going on in the internet but apparently it’s clogged. So, we’re gonna wrap up this episode, session 15 of the Online Income Lab podcast. As always you can find us in iTunes. If you enjoyed the show I would love it if you would take a minute to give some positive feedback, 4 stars or 5 stars will be the best of course. If you’re listening to this in your car and you’ve never heard of the Online Income Lab before there is this and many other podcasts and all sorts of educational resources all focused on one topic how to make money online. So, onlineincomelab.com this episode /session015 will have a comment form below so I’m sure if you have questions that either myself or my guest Adam will be very happy to provide you with answers and I wanna thank you very much for tuning in. It has been an absolute pleasure and we will see you very shortly with another episode of the Online Income Lab podcasts.